Renault Pont Avant 569 - palier / bearing

[andrazzz]

Hello!

My front differential (PA 569) has a worn pinion bearing. Most probably because the front drive shaft was out of balance for too many kilometers.
When I rotate the flange by hand, it doesn't run smoothly. I guess the outer pinion bearing should be replaced soon.

Does anyone have any information or experience with the replacement?

Cheers

[def130]

Is it Hurth or Renault Axles ?

[HiddenTTY]

It's not a Hurth axle but a Renault 569 diff housing.

Hi andrazzz, this is called a 569.10 cause it's a front axle, but it's based on the 569.01 or 02 diff central housing that common to rear's Renault B and Mascott axles. Hopfully the overall mecanics interventions are well documented but require special tools and very high precise operations.
Somes information and docs are available here : viewtopic.php?p=216264#p216264

Personaly i've gone throught the complete swap of a diff gear on à 569.39 that's quite the same except for the crown bearing payload that use a nut instead of shim like yours. More information here : viewtopic.php?t=18770

You have to reefer to this paper about the bearing dimensions :




Operations are documented here : http://bastien59.free.fr/mecanique/Pont ... %20-10.pdf Start at page 20.

[andrazzz]

Hello!

It's Renault axle, yes.

Thanks a lot for the info. Very useful.

Currently the van is in Kyrgyzstan and I'm at home (Slovenia) - I'd like to equip myself (as much as I can) with instructions, manuals and spare parts before I head back to KG in spring.

Cheers, Andraz

[HiddenTTY]

Are you familiar with metrology tools and process like with comparator ?
Usually when you already have play and misalignement in one of the pinion gear bearing the second is probably wasted too.

The problem with that is that if you need to change the two bearings you have to make sure to adjust the bearings preload, the pinion-crown distance and the teeth backlash, only with rectified shim. It can be a loooong work, take multiple assembly try before find the right setup. And if you just mess it or get bored to tune it properly your hypoid gear will just insanely be weared in no time.

If any doubt, it could be wise to ask to a professional machinist to perform the operation.

[def130]

We all rebuild the axels from the LT ( hurth) and upgrade the system it is. Life time it is a job where you need do know what have to be done.

[andrazzz]

Thanks for the informations and warnings.
I have no particular experience with the job, but most probably I would do it at home (even though it's out of my comfort zone). I'm sure I would need days or weeks. But almost anything is fixable if you have time.
I definitely won't do it there without someone who has experience with that. And I know it will take time - I plan few days.
I'd just like to prepare as much as possible - with knowledge, spare parts and tools - to minimize the surprises

[andrazzz]

Hi again!

Does anyone know where can I get all the parts needed - bearings, shims, seal,...?

Renault Trucks Slovenia is useless. They say the parts are not available.

Cheers, Andraz

[HiddenTTY]

Hello Andraz,

It's mostly true, parts are difficult to source.
Many informations are already present in the links i posted upper before.

You have a 569.10 but it's the same mecanics than the 569.01 and 02 but NOT the same than 569.39

The parts about the pignon - bearing preload / shim - conical distance are the same for all the 569.x axle.
But the planetary + crown assembly has minors differences between 569.10, 01, 02 VERSUS ,39


PIGNON

5003090097 : bearing 45x90mm x 32mm / JTEKT - T5ED045-KOYO
5516010573 : bearing 35x72mm x 24.5mm / SNR - 32207C-SNR

5000671180 to 3 : shim 74x86 / Renault Trucks have them (100% sure) i have them too.
5000671175 to 9 : shim 35x43 / CEI have them (111.419, 111,422, etc.. ,424), i have them too.

Shim kits not exist anymore, now it's thicker shim of 74x86 or 35x43mm than must to been rectified / machined withing +-0,03mm tolerance.
If you know serious machinist than can make you them perfectly // and whitin the tolerance to quote measured on your axle you can save some money.

Don't reuse the main M20x150 nut, buy one from Renault Truck (it's 10.9 or 12.9 class hard steel).

CROWN

I've neved been here because i own a 569.39 but i'll gonna try to give you some data.
You probably need to make them machined shim too to reach crown bearings preload and fine tune conical distance.

5000685388 x2 : bearings 50X95X24,75
5000685385 to 7: fom 7,x to 8,x mm thickness --> https://www.cei.it/parts/d%C3%A9tails-d ... l/renault/

For more refs Renault Mascott share 569.01 / 02 axle that are common with your :

Pont renault 569.pdf

(831.36 Kio) Téléchargé 8 fois

This is the MAIN axle intervention manual :

CLASSEURS ATELIER_compressed.pdf

(4.1 Mio) Téléchargé 10 fois

Removing and put back the crown assembly in place on this axle version require to "expand" the housing according to the docs.
Good luck my friend ! keep us in tune

[andrazzz]

Hello!

Thanks again for the very useful information.

Somehow I got the reply from Renault Trucks Slovenia.
They say the bearings aren't available - but that's not a big deal. I'll get them from Koyo.
Shims are available, but the price is ridiculous - from 63 to 93 € per shim.

I was planning to buy shims one of each size or more, but it would cost too much.

(1)
Shim shape.
What exactly do these numbers in catalogue mean?
CALE D=74x86 - that's probably inner and outer diameter.
But what does "4,60 A 4,99" mean? Are the shims cone shaped?

(2)
If the shims are flat.
I can get laser cut shims from stainless steel sheet metal of different thicknesses - 0,50mm, 0,60mm, 0,70mm, 0,80mm, 1,00mm, 1,20mm, 1,25mm, 1,50mm, 2,00mm, 2,50mm,... 5,00mm

Would it be ok to combine shims of different thicknesses?

(3)
Bearings
There are two numbers for bearings
Scanned catalogue numbers (with dimensions):

5003090097
5516010573

and Renault Consult numbers without dimension data:

5010241920
5010241918

Why different numbers? I'll most probably buy all four.

Cheers, Andraz

[HiddenTTY]

Hi Andrazz

(1)
Shim shape.
What exactly do these numbers in catalogue mean?
CALE D=74x86 - that's probably inner and outer diameter.
But what does "4,60 A 4,99" mean? Are the shims cone shaped?

CALE mean SHIM so yes, ext ⌀86mm and int ⌀74mm the term "4,60 A 4,99" is about the thickness 4,60mm to 4,99mm.
In the old time it was a pack of extra fine shim, but not anymore, you buy a THICK one then machine it. to reach que quote.
The shims are perfectly // you can make some yourself.

(2)
If the shims are flat.
I can get laser cut shims from stainless steel sheet metal of different thicknesses - 0,50mm, 0,60mm, 0,70mm, 0,80mm, 1,00mm, 1,20mm, 1,25mm, 1,50mm, 2,00mm, 2,50mm,... 5,00mm

Would it be ok to combine shims of different thicknesses?

Yes it was the way in the old time to combine them, but forget it, just laser à bunch of 5 / 6mm in hard steel then machine them to the exact quote like explained in manuals.

(3)
Bearings
There are two numbers for bearings
Scanned catalogue numbers (with dimensions):

5003090097
5516010573

and Renault Consult numbers without dimension data:

5010241920
5010241918

IMO just refeer to the dimensions, both of the refs are the same size... 45x90x32 for 5003090097 and 5010241920 , they are just the same.

Same for 5516010573 and 5010241918 they both are 35x72mm but one seem to be 24,25mm and the second 24,5mm.. use shim. This bearing task is to carry the preload. Not the conical distance that are devoluted to the xxx920 / xxx097, so it's not a problem.
But i would go for the 5010241918 (35x72x24.25mm) in your case if you have the choice.

[andrazzz]

Oh, yes! That is exactly the answer that I was hoping for.
I'll get laser cut shims and machine them to the specifed thickness.

Thank you very much, HiddenTTY!